Research And Discussion

as someone who has journied through most of Christendoms denominations these past 35 years,  now at the tender age of 52  i have clearly seen many of the errors of her teachings. but there are more things wrong with Gentile Christianity than just Christmass and Easter and the Trinity. Having been through the schools of Methodism, congregationalism, the Baptists, Mormonism, Jehovahs Witnesses, and Christadelphianism it left me confused by all the seperate claims made by them as to being the rightfull heirs or custodians of the "Truth" .

having a number of years ditched replacement theology  the last 3 years have been spent apart from Organised religion researching  - the jewish roots of my faith. although i humbly conceede that what i put faword for debate i will not be dogmatic about, i merely raise this because from a jewish or Israelitish perspective i believe it has some merit. the subject for discussion being; is the death of Messiah redemptive or Atoning ?

we know in God's calender that 3 sacred festivals were given the 1st Passover, was related to the slaying of the lambs in order lelease them from their bondage to egypt. When Yaweh spoke through Moses he said " Let my people go" therefore Passover was not a sacrificial sin offering but a sacrifice for redeeming from death the  first born for whom the sacrice was  made and as a result of this redemption from death the whole nation of Israel and that of Foreiners who choose to follow also had redemption, but not a redemption from death as that which had hung over the first born , but a redemption from their hourly and daily affliction under Egyptian rule. The Lamb which prefigured Messiah was a sacrifice for release, ransom and redemption only. it had no application as a sin offering since National Guilt had not yet been established because the priesthood had not yet come into being for Moses had not to this point given the Law or the statutes and ordinances by which would come Knowledge of Transgression and for these the administration of Priestly  Temple Sacrices.

even though Yaweh had redeemed them they still were a stiff Knecked and disobedient people who would also fail to keep the Moral Law and fall into sin.

it is interesting that the next significant eveant was Pentecost  a time of Jubilee celebration it was a time for remembering their purchase from slavery back in Egypt and the Jubilee became a time for freeing slaves from their  bondage.

the last of the 3 festivals was Tabenacles,  yet, it was not untill then that the nation was purged of her sin and the sin offerings made first for the High Priest and then for the Sins of the People. if  the Passover Lambs had been sin Offerings then there would have been no need for the feast of Tabenacles.

Likewise, Messiah who is called "Our Passover Lamb has been sacrificed for us" was firstly a sacrifice for ransom, release and redemption. all these the messiah accomplished for Israel in the flesh and  numerous scriptures in the new testament evidence this and are summed up in Hebrews 9 V15 "for that is why he is the mediator of a New Cvenant by death in order to release them by ransom from the transgressions commited under the 1st Covenant". The Messiah was dieing for Israel's sake alone, since it was only Israel that was under the 1st covenant - the gentiles had no part in it. and yet, i will conceed that all engrafted Gentiles from the Exodus Foward are included as being all Spiritual Israeites since they would have all come under the Law which would  lead them to Messiah. Yaweh was purchasing natural Israel   but we can also apply this Prophetically to Spiritual Israel which are all who engraft into the root.  Paul said his message was one of reconcilliation "that Yaweh was reconcilling us to himself in or through Messiah"

the death of Messiah was a unilateral agreement between Father and Son it needed no human acceptance. Messiah was dieing to bring back to God his people Israel to redeem them from the weakness of the Animal sacrificial system that then existed. the Israelites had been doubly cursed in that they were guilty  through adamic sin and the Law of Moses. The Gentile was guilty only on account of Adamic sin. therefore, the death of Messiah was equaling the scales. now both Jew and Gentile would together only carry the stain of Adamic Sin. even the Apostles strggled with Sin in the flesh even to the point of saying that He who says he is without sin is a liar.  if the Messiah had been a sin offering then it follows that the wages of sin which is death would no longer have effect. that we die shows that the Messiah's death will not yet be accounted as a sin offering untill a future time. even through its accredited to Mans account it cannot be cashed in.

Pentecost is the period we are in now a time when the father is setting free the catives from bodage to sin and death, everyone who turns to Messiah and Acknowledges his Father. in the book of Acts Yaweh says that he is turning to the Gentiles to takes out of them a people for his name. and when the fullness of the Gentiles has come in he will turn his attention back to Israel.

it is only when the calender gets to the time for the Feast of Tabenacles that our Sins will finally be blotted out and removed. on that great 8th day  the high priest the Messiah will stand up and then at that time will his sacrifice as a sin offering be merited upon the righteous

to recap the Passover sacrifice of Messiah is a National Redemption to Yaweh of his People and not a Sin offering because it does not fit the patern of God's sacred calender.

Pentecost is the time we now live in when the sacrifice of Messiah is setting free the sactives from their bondage to sin and death.

since we all die then whether it is Adamic sin or personal sin  then we known the both believer and atheist die  and the scriptures which talk of  Messiah as a sin offering refer first to Israel under the Law and secondly to Jew and  Gentile under Adamic Sin .

untill the 8th Great day Messiah is the great Propitiatory  covering sacrifice in other words Sin is covered and not taken away but when he stands as the great High Priest in that day then his once for all time sacrifice will  atone for the sins of mankind. when white robes will be worn instead of our filthy rags when his sacrifice first for his own sins and then for the sins of the poeple will be applied.

as someone who has journied through most of Christendoms denominations these past 35 years,  now at the tender age of 52  i have clearly seen many of the errors of her teachings. but there are more things wrong with Gentile Christianity than just Christmass and Easter and the Trinity. Having been through the schools of Methodism, congregationalism, the Baptists, Mormonism, Jehovahs Witnesses, and Christadelphianism it left me confused by all the seperate claims made by them as to being the rightfull heirs or custodians of the "Truth" .

having a number of years ditched replacement theology  the last 3 years have been spent apart from Organised religion researching  - the jewish roots of my faith. although i humbly conceede that what i put faword for debate i will not be dogmatic about, i merely raise this because from a jewish or Israelitish perspective i believe it has some merit. the subject for discussion being; is the death of Messiah redemptive or Atoning ?

we know in God's calender that 3 sacred festivals were given the 1st Passover, was related to the slaying of the lambs in order lelease them from their bondage to egypt. When Yaweh spoke through Moses he said " Let my people go" therefore Passover was not a sacrificial sin offering but a sacrifice for redeeming from death the  first born for whom the sacrice was  made and as a result of this redemption from death the whole nation of Israel and that of Foreiners who choose to follow also had redemption, but not a redemption from death as that which had hung over the first born , but a redemption from their hourly and daily affliction under Egyptian rule. The Lamb which prefigured Messiah was a sacrifice for release, ransom and redemption only. it had no application as a sin offering since National Guilt had not yet been established because the priesthood had not yet come into being for Moses had not to this point given the Law or the statutes and ordinances by which would come Knowledge of Transgression and for these the administration of Priestly  Temple Sacrices.

even though Yaweh had redeemed them they still were a stiff Knecked and disobedient people who would also fail to keep the Moral Law and fall into sin.

it is interesting that the next significant eveant was Pentecost  a time of Jubilee celebration it was a time for remembering their purchase from slavery back in Egypt and the Jubilee became a time for freeing slaves from their  bondage.

the last of the 3 festivals was Tabenacles,  yet, it was not untill then that the nation was purged of her sin and the sin offerings made first for the High Priest and then for the Sins of the People. if  the Passover Lambs had been sin Offerings then there would have been no need for the feast of Tabenacles.

Likewise, Messiah who is called "Our Passover Lamb has been sacrificed for us" was firstly a sacrifice for ransom, release and redemption. all these the messiah accomplished for Israel in the flesh and  numerous scriptures in the new testament evidence this and are summed up in Hebrews 9 V15 "for that is why he is the mediator of a New Cvenant by death in order to release them by ransom from the transgressions commited under the 1st Covenant". The Messiah was dieing for Israel's sake alone, since it was only Israel that was under the 1st covenant - the gentiles had no part in it. and yet, i will conceed that all engrafted Gentiles from the Exodus Foward are included as being all Spiritual Israeites since they would have all come under the Law which would  lead them to Messiah. Yaweh was purchasing natural Israel   but we can also apply this Prophetically to Spiritual Israel which are all who engraft into the root.  Paul said his message was one of reconcilliation "that Yaweh was reconcilling us to himself in or through Messiah"

the death of Messiah was a unilateral agreement between Father and Son it needed no human acceptance. Messiah was dieing to bring back to God his people Israel to redeem them from the weakness of the Animal sacrificial system that then existed. the Israelites had been doubly cursed in that they were guilty  through adamic sin and the Law of Moses. The Gentile was guilty only on account of Adamic sin. therefore, the death of Messiah was equaling the scales. now both Jew and Gentile would together only carry the stain of Adamic Sin. even the Apostles strggled with Sin in the flesh even to the point of saying that He who says he is without sin is a liar.  if the Messiah had been a sin offering then it follows that the wages of sin which is death would no longer have effect. that we die shows that the Messiah's death will not yet be accounted as a sin offering untill a future time. even through its accredited to Mans account it cannot be cashed in.

Pentecost is the period we are in now a time when the father is setting free the catives from bodage to sin and death, everyone who turns to Messiah and Acknowledges his Father. in the book of Acts Yaweh says that he is turning to the Gentiles to takes out of them a people for his name. and when the fullness of the Gentiles has come in he will turn his attention back to Israel.

it is only when the calender gets to the time for the Feast of Tabenacles that our Sins will finally be blotted out and removed. on that great 8th day  the high priest the Messiah will stand up and then at that time will his sacrifice as a sin offering be merited upon the righteous

to recap the Passover sacrifice of Messiah is a National Redemption to Yaweh of his People and not a Sin offering because it does not fit the patern of God's sacred calender.

Pentecost is the time we now live in when the sacrifice of Messiah is setting free the sactives from their bondage to sin and death.

since we all die then whether it is Adamic sin or personal sin  then we known the both believer and atheist die  and the scriptures which talk of  Messiah as a sin offering refer first to Israel under the Law and secondly to Jew and  Gentile under Adamic Sin .

untill the 8th Great day Messiah is the great Propitiatory  covering sacrifice in other words Sin is covered and not taken away but when he stands as the great High Priest in that day then his once for all time sacrifice will  atone for the sins of mankind. when white robes will be worn instead of our filthy rags when his sacrifice first for his own sins and then for the sins of the poeple will be applied.